Juve midfielder Paul Pogba believes the love he gets in Turin is different from his time at Manchester United. Speaking in a lengthy interview with French website View.fr, ‘Polpo’ spoke about his return to the Bianconeri, tackling racism throughout his career, and the impact that media attention can have on the mental health of a footballer:
Do you think that all this media hype around you has also had an effect on your physical state and well-being?
“Ah, of course, totally. First of all, the head controls everything. When you’re not right in the head, the body follows. Even if you say “Yeah, I’ll be fine”, you’re a football player, and that’s fine. Your body really takes to it. And so all these injuries that have happened, I think the basis of it all was my head. Really, it was my head. And then, when I realized all that, when I knew it was just my head, my body, it really reacted to all those problems outside football, on football, thoughts, I was stressed, my body was tense. And I wanted so much to come back quickly, to play and show people, to shut everyone up a bit. Well, it was a blow and that’s why I took a step back and thought about myself and my well-being. It was time to rest and take it easy. If you look at the situation five-six months ago, what we were hearing was more criticism. After the decisive assist in yesterday’s match, it was praise that you heard. That’s the way the world is. So I always stay positive. I want to give people pleasure. And above all, I want to enjoy myself on the pitch. And that’s what I’ve been doing since I came back from injury.”
From an outsider’s point of view, I get the impression that this is perhaps the most difficult season of your career?
“Yeah! Already changing clubs. Coming back here [to Juventus]. The injuries. The extra-sporting problems. Ah, for sure, that was the biggest test. I’d even say it was the biggest test of my life. Once I’ve passed all that, it’ll be my greatest victory. That’s how I see it, once you’ve passed that, you’re ready for anything.”
You’re focused on football, but what did you think of the controversy surrounding the breaking of the Ramadan fast for sportsmen and women in France?
“No one, no Muslim, asked for this. In recent years, all Muslims who wanted to fast have always done so without asking for time off. So I don’t know why this year it happened. Because we didn’t hear the people who asked for breaks, they [the Muslims] did it on their own. Whether in the Premier League or in Italy or wherever.”
“In fact, it’s been a pointless controversy, because nobody asked for anything, nobody cried. It’s sport, we play football. People who can, who want to fast, can fast. They don’t complain. When it’s hot, everyone sits down and drinks water. It’s exactly the same, so I don’t know why there’s a controversy about it. In my opinion, it’s been a controversy for nothing.”
You’re a black, Muslim footballer who plays in Italy. A league that is very often singled out for the way it treats black players, who are often victims of racism. At the end of 2014, Carlo Tavecchio, the former president of the federation, made racist comments about you.
“What did he say?”
He said: “Opti Poba arrived and ate bananas. Now he’s a first-team regular for Lazio in Serie A”, even though you were at Juve.
Have you experienced any other racial discrimination on or off the pitch?“Yeah, yeah, but actually, we’ve already won. Black people have already won. How many years were we slaves? Today, we play football. We take buses. We have cars. We’re recognized the world over. For me, it’s a victory. All these people are ignorant, they’re ignorant comments that want to touch or hurt whatever the individual, whether it’s a sportsman or not. Personally, the advice I can give to black people or even people of color, anyone who has received racist remarks is: they’re trying to touch you and it’s the weak who do that. We’ve already won. Today, look at yourself: you’re Black, you’re doing your interview. Do you think that the years when we were slaves would have been possible? Never!”
“Today, we won. The blacks, they’re there and they can’t do anything. That’s just the way it is. What’s my victory? It’s when I see white kids wearing my jersey and they ask me for autographs and photos. That’s my victory. That’s where it ends. You can be as racist as you like, but I’ve got nothing against them, I’ve got nothing against anybody. And frankly, my wish, my invocations, is to change the hearts of these people by playing football. It’s to change the mentality of these people. Racist remarks are always going to be made, whether it’s white or black. Because we’re in Europe, but it can be the other way round too.”
“It’s a victory for me to play football, to play for Juventus in Italy and to be recognized all over the world. There will always be racists, and you can’t change that. Because you can’t change what someone thinks. Because you can’t change the ignorant. And there are a lot of hidden racists. They keep quiet, they don’t say anything, but they’re still racists. So that kind of talk really hasn’t touched me for a long time now.”
“My father used to say to me, “You always have to work and never give up. Work, work and work to get where you want to go. That’s what I’ve done, and that’s what I’ve won: seeing white kids wearing my jersey.”
Do you think that institutions are doing enough to really fight against this? Do you think we should leave the pitch when we hear monkey chants?
“No, because you can’t change the ignorant. It’s a source of pride for me, I see it in victory: they’ve come to the stadium to support their team, but they insult you. Have you seen how you touch them? Did you see your victory? They’re thinking about you instead of their team and supporting their team. You’re the one who wants to touch them, because you’re dangerous. We’re dangerous and for me, that’s a victory.”
“If they really wanted to change something, they would have done it a long time ago, before we were even born! But that’s the way it is, you can’t change people. If people come to the stadium to support their team and insult you, call you “dirty black” or throw bananas at you, you’ve won, you’re affecting them. It means you’re dangerous, it means they’re thinking about you instead of their team. And that’s a victory.”
Are you someone who always tries to see the positive even in a negative situation?
“Let me tell you an anecdote. I was in Italy playing against Fiorentina. They [the Fiorentina fans] shouted monkey cries at me. I looked at them, took off my shirt, gave it to a little one and they all applauded me. You see the trick? In fact, it’s ignorance, they want to get to you. That doesn’t mean they’re racist. Maybe they’re jealous or something? They all applauded me at Fiorentina, it wasn’t even in my stadium. I touched the hearts of the Fiorentina fans, the racist people. This is my victory, so I’m not even going to fight. Why are you going to fight? To change people’s mentality? No, it’s the actions that speak for themselves, and it was with this action that they [the Fiorentina fans] changed directly, in two seconds.
“But I find that institutions don’t put enough resources into concrete actions.”
What was the point of getting down on one knee?
“Nothing.
“Because it’s the players who do it. You can even have ten minutes’ silence to say “No to racism”, but you can’t change people. You can’t change people who think this is red when it’s black. So how are you going to change [racists]? It’s just actions, showing it, setting an example, having the right behavior. That’s all you can do, I think personally.”
“It’s true that it’s hard in today’s society because we have to work much harder than others. And we’re lucky, because we work. But what was it like before? We made it. It’s a lot less serious than what our parents went through. And what I say when I see people who have received racist remarks is don’t even think about it. You’ve won, you’ve touched them, they say your name, they say you’re a dirty black, but they know you anyway. You’ve made an impression on them, so that’s your victory.”
So, are we going to stay like this?
“No, take what you can get. Footballers don’t change that. Personally, I’d have said, you lay down a law: as soon as there’s racist shouting, you lose the match. Straight away. Three points to the other team. And slowly, things will calm down.”
In the United States, you don’t even hear that. Because the best players are black. It’s all in the guy’s head [racists], you know what I mean. In sports, there’s less racism than in everyday life.
“So it’s a pretty delicate subject and unfortunately it’s something we can’t control. But the only thing to do is to show them that we’ve come a long way and that we’re the best. Even if we have to work three times as hard, we just try to be the best.”
Let’s talk about your future. In your documentary, you say that after your career, you’d like to make foreign-language action films or series, because you speak French, Italian, English and Spanish. Can you really imagine yourself doing that?
“Frankly, I’m really interested! I’ve talked to my wife about it, but she’s not too keen because I already spend too much time on football. And with action films, you’re away for like six months. But it’s always been my dream. I like movies, I like watching series and I really look at the details. It’s something I’d love to do during or after my football career.”
Do you take acting lessons?
“No, I used to when I was younger, but it’s always in the back of my mind.”
And did you talk to Zlatan about his experience in the film “Asterix and Obelix: The Middle Kingdom”?
“We did. After the film, he showed me some of the things he’d done and so on. I told him, “You’re made for this”, and his character comes across well on screen. I’m a character myself, and I’ve been told that “It would be good if you made films”. So why not? Why not give it a try?”
Do you already have contacts?
“No, but I’ve already spoken to the director of the film “Space Jam” with [Michael] Jordan. I was approached like that, but I was still in the bubble. I hesitated a bit. But the door isn’t closed.”
Would you play in a “Space Jam” about football ?
“Yeah, that would be so cool! That would be really cool.”
You’re going to be doing a shoot with various luxury brands. What are your favorite brands?
“My favorite brand right now is LV, Louis Vuitton. Why is that? Because Virgil [Abloh] has changed the game. In fact, he inspired me. I’ve always loved Off White and when he moved to Louis Vuitton, I really found my style there. I felt really good when I put on the sapes, they’re comfortable, that’s my style, the oversized bombers, the well-fitted pants.”
“Then Amiri, because I’ve known the designer, Mike Amiri, for a long time. I remember I used to wear his jeans that I bought at LUISAVIAROMA in the early days, when it was really unknown. He always followed me, he knew who I was when I was at Juve. It’s cool, I like wearing it to training.”
Is that how you’d define your style: comfortable, relaxed, laid-back?
“Yes, but that’s during the season. During the season, I’m pretty chill. I don’t want to go to training wearing Haute Couture or serious style for what, 30 minutes? During the summer, we throw away the shirts, the summer clothes.”
And what are your fashion inspirations?
“It all started with my mother. I used to choose her clothes when I was younger. They were always pretty extravagant colors like yellow and purple. You don’t see that every day. She used to wear African boubous, she was always in style, she married clothes and colors well. And that’s how I started dressing well, coming from my madre.”
It’s true that when we see you, you’re always colorful, whether it’s your clothes or your haircuts.
“Yeah! Well, there’s nothing there [he’s dressed all in black] but it’s true that I like to dress up, I like colors. Colors are life, they’re the world, they’re nature. They’re me!”
You’ve made several lifestyle collections with adidas, your main outfitter. You’ve even collaborated with Stella McCartney. What was it like working with her?
“Working with Stella was great! Because you come out of the world of soccer and performance. Stella is super famous, she has her own brand. We started working with adidas, and I said to them, “Well, when are we going to do the feat with Stella? We created the super colorful vegan shoes, and they’re the best adidas shoes and cleats I’ve ever had. And that was with Stella.”
“Frankly, she sees differently, she’s always ahead of the game. And I really, really, really enjoyed working with her.
Has having all this experience in fashion made you want to create a brand or do collabs with brands you like?
“I’ve thought about it, but I tell myself it’s a business. If I do something, it’s more for investment than pleasure. I’ve already started testing a bit with a brand called Pioche and there’s something coming very soon.
“But for the moment, I’m more on stand-by, more concerned with sport and soccer than fashion and everything else. There’s always time, fashion, it’s never going to die.”
Are you going to get into music? How long have you been interested?
“I do like music. It’s what we grew up on. So yes, I’ve already gone into the studio. I’ve tried, but it’s all been behind closed doors between me and my friends. But music appeals to me less than action films. It’s really for me, for me for a delirium.”
When you think of Paul ten years ago and see what you’ve become now, what do you think?
“Pride. Really, I didn’t expect it. I’d never have guessed it. The last ten years have been really positive. Despite everything that’s been said. I’m proud of it, and if I had to do it all over again, I’d do it every day.”
What’s interesting about your career is that you’ve been to two clubs, leaving and coming back.
“When I left Manchester, I was young. And when you’re young, you want to prove something. I came to Juve, to a fairly young Italian club, and it was a big test for me. But I immediately saw the love of the fans, I saw the love of the club. I really liked the way they worked and I learned a lot.
“I went back to Manchester because I hadn’t finished my work there. I said to myself, “I really want to play for the senior team [the first team]”. I did it and it was a goal I achieved. We’d already won, not the Premier League, but titles that Manchester hadn’t won for a long time.
“And why did I come back to Juve? Because it’s the club that really helped me grow. And really, the love of the fans, the love of the club that I receive, I didn’t receive in Manchester. I was quite surprised when I came back to England, already with the transfer, they had put a label on me. It was pretty sad.
“But these are two clubs that I really love, that have helped me grow and I can only say thank you to them. I could perhaps have gone to other clubs, but it was my heart that chose these clubs and I often follow my heart.”
